I get very annoyed with people that seem to be continually defining God on their terms. Their God tends to be very politically correct (no warring or genocide allowed), but when they are done defining God, it seems to me there is nothing left but platitudes about love.
- It seems that the statement that "God is love" does not map well into our human understanding of Love
- Scot Douglass' statement "Every truth about God is always also a lie about Him" -- is "God is love" one of those truths that is also an untruth?
- Is this a problem of language -- are we in the realm of the ineffable?
- Do some attributes of God transcend love?
- Do we need different categories of Love? The love of humans and the love of God?
- 1 Cor 13:5 "It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful" has a very human centric and pragmatic feel to it. Anyone that is in relationship feels the truth of this.
- John 3:16 agape love
Human love and God-as-Love are related, I think, but perhaps in ways that we have not yet imagined. My own belief is that God-above-God transcends the biblical character(s).
ReplyDeleteMy god is beyond
our human understanding,
so that everything we know
about friendship and love
is just a pale reflection
in comparison,
and yet these things
best teach us and train us
revealing to us the beginning steps
toward loving wisdom. ...
My god is beyond
the highest thought that we can think,
but my god is also very simple -
the ultimate source and
definition of love.
You cannot explain even rhyme
to an ant, and likewise
we are limited by the terms
of our own perceptions
and our own becomings.
Yet I believe that worship
breathes through us all at times
through kindness, through smiles,
through forgiveness, through actions,
through refraining from actions,
and through the myriads of thoughts
and feelings and behaviors
that all of us, down deep inside
already know.
We already know.
There is that still voice deep inside
of the kingdom yet within us.
And if there really is a god,
and not our wish-filled dream
then I invite this god to manifest
in and through me, and to raise me up
- the metaphor of upness incomplete -
to the supreme processes of love.
Heidi
All of that is just to say that GodLove transcends categories we have.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if what you were getting at in this post has anything to do with something I have been thinking about for the last couple of years, as a subset of my struggles about "the Church," but here't goes.
ReplyDeleteChurches often have marquees outside their building and sometimes banners or other signage, where they will put some kind of message about God loving humanity. Often it's a simple "God loves you. Join us for worship… Everyone welcome," or "Jesus loves you, and we do too."
Seeing these signs really annoys me, and I've wanted to blog this annoyance, but so far never have, at least not as the focus… maybe I've let go a few squeals of annoyance about this in posts about other things.
If I have a point at all, it is this: What is "God loves you" supposed to mean in the eyes and mind of a passer-by? It certainly can't be considered bait. If you want to lure fish into the net these days, you need to advertise something more in demand. Wait a second! What am I thinking? Do fisherman sit on the shore with their nets gathered around their knees and a big sign propped up facing the sea that says, "We love you! Hop into the net! You're all welcome!"
A normal, healthy, non-Christian 23 year old passing the "[@$&] Christian Center" on N.E. Glisan Street in Portland, Oregon just a block down from the TBN studio with the big sign, is going to feel drawn to this "church" or better yet to Christ, by seeing a sign that says "God loves you, and we do too" just like that? Duh, I don't think so.
How about a lonely 55 year old, non-Christian divorcee whose kids won't talk to him? When he sees the sign, is he going to turn in, and let God have His way with him? I'd be surprised if he did. He might be thinking, if he's had a bad day, "Those blessèd Motherf---rs, think they're so great, God loves me, right! Let 'em come over and see how I've been living these seven years in that cramped hole…"
Well, who is a sign like that for, then? And what is it supposed to mean to say, "God is love" or "God loves you" on a sign posted in front of a church. Golly! The church isn't even OPEN most of the time! What kind of God is that anyway? Either He's God and loves me 24/7, or He's just a gimmick, a "make me feel good" kind of game that goes on only at certain specific times that have a beginning and an end. "Don't forget! Be on time for a good seat!"
Back to the 55 year old, lonely divorcee. He passes the "church" muttering words of self-recrimination and cursing God as he passes by, walks down to the bus stop, hops the bus, and gets off at a porn store to watch a few movies and "relieve" himself. Disgusting. There was God's love staring him in the face, and instead he finds a comfortable hideout to mingle the pieces of his broken life with a loveless fantasy. And where is God's love?
The examples above are both imaginary, based on things I've seen around town. The televangelism "church" is, in my opinion, even worse, because they prostitute themselves taking people's money and giving an illusion of blessing back, along with a "Jesus loves you, and we do too." Disgusting.
I find myself getting stuck on the correlation between the famous verse John 3:16 and its much less famous flipside in 1 John 3:16. I blog this relationship on and off, and I think this is how I try to resolve my problem with the church signage issue. We're not in the Church Age anymore. We can't just let "the other guy" do it for us anymore, that is, if we want to follow Jesus. Between Christ's first and second comings, there's nobody here but us. The world needs a different kind of sign that says "God loves you" for it to take the risk of faith. That sign has to be merely me, and you.
Thanks for reading this comment, if you've gotten this far. I'm sure there's nothing here that you didn't already know or have thought of.
Your blogs are interesting, and I will visit again. Now, though, it's time to go and read my bible some more. I've had my say, now I want Him to have His.
Romanós,
ReplyDeleteI share your frustration with what "religious" people seem to see as the way they should interact with the world. Their approach appears to have few similarities to what Jesus did when he walked here. Your comment about us not being in the Church age anymore intrigues me. Have you posted on this? I would very much appreciate a link, or some elaboration on this. As you know many people assume static relationships between God, the Word, the Church, and the Scriptures--but I wonder if revelation is progressive--and things may be far from static.
-- Vance
I've always taken the love messages as a form of evangelical outreach. Churches advertise. To them, I think it probably suggests an attitude of loving the sinner/hating the sin. In another way, it's just a fad. Many of the signs are cute, witty, quirky in some way and I think they're meant just to call attention to the church's existence, and maybe to stick in your head later, like any good commercial.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ρωμανός ~ Romanós however about the call of the authentic christian not being so dependent on the historical structures of the church as on path one chooses, and how one relates to others. It's all very well to proclaim love, but if you do not exhibit that love in your life, it can't be said to really exist. It's only active in the "between" of us.